The serial number schemes and paper label designs used with Gretsch guitars and banjos differed from those used with Gretsch drums. On a few occasions in the early 1970s, drum serial numbers and drum labels appear on guitars and banjos and guitar/banjo serial numbers and labels appear on drums. This article is written for the vintage guitar, banjo and drum communities so that this fascinating interaction between these areas of Gretsch manufacturing is more widely understood.

Typical Use of Serial Numbers and Paper Labels with Guitars and Banjos

A more complete history of Gretsch’s serialization of guitars and banjos is developed by Edward Ball and can be obtained by reading his great book on the Model 6120 guitar. 1 However, some background is provided so that one understands what was being done on both the guitar/banjo and the drum sides of instrument manufacturing. Sequential serial numbers were initially stamped into the tip of the headstock (guitars) and dowel rod (banjos) and later were often handwritten in pencil inside the instruments. In about 1949, paper labels with model and serial numbers were introduced in guitars. On hollow body guitars, these paper labels were attached inside the instrument body and are typically visible through the bass-side F-hole. On solid body models, paper labels were placed inside the large control cavity. When paper labels could not be or were not used, the serial number scheme then in use was honored, with the serial numbers stamped or imprinted on the instrument. The main serial number sequence started in the 1940s and ended in 1966, using serial numbers up through about 82500. They were simply numbers and did not contain any imbedded information.

The year 1966 would prove to be eventful for Gretsch guitars and banjos. In early 1966, Gretsch restarted its serial numbers at 0001. This second sequence of numbers appeared on a second style of orange and gray label. This label was orange and gray, with “The Fred Gretsch Mfg. Co.” and the 60 Broadway, Brooklyn, NY, address at the top, blank lines for the model and serial numbers in the middle and “The Great Gretsch Sound” along the bottom. It is not clear if this restart was intended as a stopgap measure, but it did not last for long. 2

In August of 1966 the Gretsch factory completely changed their approach to serialization of guitars and instituted a “date-coded” or logic-based numbering system. The first one or two digits represented the month of production, the next digit represented the year of production, and the remainder of the digits indicated the number that particular guitar/banjo was in that month. So serial number 96211 would represent September (9), 1966 (6), the 211 th instrument produced that month (211). Simultaneous to this numbering change, the Gretsch factory also relocated the numbers on the guitars to now reside on the back of the headstock. They were machine stamped (gold paint) instead of the previous practice of hand stamping the individual numbers into the wood on the tip of the headstock. In June of 1967 Gretsch added the words “Made in USA”, also machine stamped, adjacent to the serial number, on both the guitar and banjo lines. By early 1968, Gretsch included banjos in the new numbering system, and utilized the internal dowel rod which spanned the inside of the rim for the machine-stamped, date-2 coded, serial numbering. This numbering system was in place for guitars and banjos until January 1972 when a slight change occurred – a hyphen was added between the month and the year. This system continued through the 1970s. When a paper label is present from later 1966 through the 1970s, the “date-coded” serial numbers are stamped on a relatively plain looking black and white label which has a wide black border, the stylized words “Gretsch Guitars” on top, blank lines for the model and serial numbers in the middle and “Made in USA” on the bottom.

Typical Use of Serial Numbers and Paper Labels with Drums

Meanwhile over in drum assembly, in about 1962 paper labels with sequential serial numbers were first applied to the inside of each drum shell. 3 The first paper drum label was Orange and White with the stylized words “That Great Gretsch Sound” near the top, “Gretsch Guaranteed for Life Drum Shell” in the middle and room at the bottom for a model number and serial number. This first style of paper drum label is used from about 1962 through about 1975. Gretsch drum serial numbers advanced from about 1001 in about 1962 to about 136500 in about 1971 (the First Sequence) and then, without explanation, started over again at 00001 and progressed upward from there (the Second Sequence). Drum serial numbers were merely sequential numbers and did not possess any imbedded logic or indication of date within their digits. It is not certain that they were applied to drum shells in numerical order, but the serial numbers appear to consistently increase as time passes. Other label styles and another restart of serial numbers follow in later years, but during the time period which is relevant for this article, only one style of label is involved and the serial number system in use is well documented.

It took years of research to reach a point where Gretsch’s use of serial numbers is fairly well understood by the vintage guitar, banjo and drum communities. Ball identified that Guitar production can be broken down into distinct 50-100 unit batches and model years have been differentiated from production years. 4 Banjo production nicely dovetails into gaps in the guitar numbers. Drum serial numbers were once considered too random to be used as a dating tool, in part because the multiple restarts of serial numbers sequences were not recognized. Gretsch’s use of serial numbers with drums is now understood and permits a basis for determining approximate manufacture dates. With a clear understanding of how serial numbers and paper labels are used on a typical guitar, banjo or drum, it is now time to explore some interesting cross-use of drum serial numbers/labels on guitars and banjos and guitar and banjo serial numbers/paper labels on drums.

Use of Drum Serial Numbers and/or Paper Labels with Guitars and Banjos

For a short while Gretsch used drum labels and/or serial numbers from the drum serial number sequence on its guitars and banjos. To date, 45 different examples of guitars and banjos possessing drum labels/serial numbers have been documented. All of the drum labels found in guitars are the first style drum label with Second Sequence drum serial numbers. The top portions of the labels are missing, but some still show the bottom sliver of the “GRETSCH GUARANTEED FOR LIFE DRUM SHELL” language or the black dot which appeared under the guaranty language. There is also evidence of the perforation at the bottom edge of each label. The 45 drum serial numbers seen on guitars and banjos range from 3 23003 to 26781. Eighty-six examples of drums labels applied to drums also have been documented in this same serial number range. In total, 131 different instruments have been documented which possess serial numbers in this span of 3,778 drum serial numbers. This sample of 131 involves 3.5% of the serial numbers reported, about one-third on guitars/banjos and two-thirds on drums. When on drums, these serial numbers are associated with drums from about the 1973 time period. The guitars and banjos with these drum serial numbers all have early to mid-1970s characteristics, including 1973 potentiometer codes.

Pictures of Guitars with Drum Labels:

Photo by Eddie Oweis – Reverb Shop Eddie’s Gear Outlet. Used with Permission

One expects a guitar or banjo from 1973 to have a “date-coded” serial number with the M-Y### format. Instead, these numbers are five-digit numbers beginning with a “2” and do not possess hyphens. Finding a guitar or banjo from this time period with a portion of a drum label with a drum serial number which possesses no imbedded logic could be quite a shock. This leads to widespread misidentification of these guitars. People looked for the imbedded logic they expected to find on a guitar/banjo and also overlooked that guitar/banjo serial numbers from this era should have possessed hyphens between the month and the year. As a result, many instruments are dated to February 1973 (23xxx) and February 1976 (26xxx) based upon this confusion. Alternatively, serial numbers 23000-27000, when they are presumed to be part of the main sequence of serial numbers started in the 1940s, date to approximately 1957. Therefore, to this day these guitars are declared to be from 1957, 1973 or 1976 based upon how they fit with guitar serial numbers. Once these paper labels are understood to have been from drums and the serial numbers are identified as part of the drum numbering scheme, things make much more sense. These instruments date to 1973.

Having established that these oddball labels and serial numbers come from drums, the next question is “why?” This requires some speculation. The most logical explanation for Gretsch’s use of drum labels in guitars and banjos is that guitar labels were not available. Gretsch had two different fires at its Boonville, Arkansas, facilities in 1973 and it is reported that guitar production was severely impacted. Guitar labels and guitar stamping equipment may have been affected. This would have made the use of drum labels and serial numbers in guitars a reasonable option.

If guitar labels were unavailable, the next best thing may have been drum labels. It appears that rolls of drum labels were taken from the drum manufacturing area, cut down to remove language referring to drums and then used in guitars and banjos. It is clear from the bouncing back and forth between drums and guitars/banjos as serial numbers progressed that guitar production took more than one trip over to the drum area to borrow labels. Based upon data gathered thus far, it appears that rolls or partial rolls of paper drum labels with serial numbers 23001-23100, 23350-23450, 26001-26449 and others were used for guitars and banjos. No drums have been recorded so far with serial numbers from these particular ranges. There are no known instances where serial numbers are duplicated in both a guitar/banjo and a drum.

As an aside, cutting of drum labels for use in guitars foreshadows Gretsch’s mid-1970s practice of cutting drum labels to remove the shell guarantee language. The drum label is eventually redesigned to remove the language, resulting in a smaller label.

Use of Guitar/Banjo Serial Numbers and Paper Labels with Drums

A similar thing happened over in the drum production area, although not at the same time. Three different examples of drums possessing guitar/banjo labels and serial numbers have been documented.

Guitar/Banjo Labels in Drums

Serial Number - Model
2066 4108T – 5x14” Aluminum Snare
2086 4418 – 16x16” Walnut Floor Tom
2111 4160 – 5x14” Chrome Plated Brass Snare

All three of the guitar/banjo labels used in drums are of the type which was used on guitars for less than a year in about 1966. However, none of the three drums with guitar labels have the physical characteristics of drums made in 1966. Rather, they date from the early 1970s. All three have the first version of the Stop Sign badge, which was introduced in about late 1969. No model numbers are written on the labels, with the exception of a “T” on the label containing serial number 2066 to indicate that it possessed a tone control. The lack of written model numbers is relatively common with drums in the early 1970s. The practice of handwriting a “T” to indicate that a tone control is included also occurred during the early 1970s. The drum with guitar serial number 2086 was a part of a three-piece set. The two other drums in the set had drum labels with serial numbers which date those drums to 1970-1971. This set is shown in use in a photograph dated April 18, 1972, so the 2086 drum was made before that date. Nothing is known about the history of the other two drums with guitar labels.

Pictures of Guitar/Banjos Labels in Drums:

Photo by Gary Taylor. Used with permission

Photo by Dave Michael. Used with Permission

Photo by Peter Vancraenenbroeck. Used with Permission

Drums from the first half of the 1970s would have had the first style of Orange/White drum labels and have serial numbers at the end of the First Sequence or the beginning of the Second Sequence. The appearance of these four-digit numbers on this style of label used for guitars and banjos does not fit expectations of the vintage drum world. These serial numbers do not appear to have been extracted from the Second Sequence of drum serial numbers. If they were, they would have had leading zeros and been presented as 02066, 02086 and 02111 instead of 2066, 2086, 2111. However, those three serial numbers have also not yet been recorded on drum labels, so it is still a possibility.

One theory as to how guitar labels from 1966 show up in drums in the early 1970s is that in about 1971 Gretsch reached the end of its drum labels from the First Sequence of serial numbers. Perhaps they ran out and the labels using the Second Sequence had not yet been received. Gretsch may have had some of these guitar/banjo labels left over from 1966 and used them in these drums so that they could be documented. That type of thing had happened before on the guitar side, when Gretsch applied a “lost” roll of 1,000 labels with serial numbers belonging in 1957 to some 1966 guitars. This might offer some explanation for why drum serial numbers started over with the Second Sequence rather than continuing up from 136500 – it may have been easier to just start over at one after a brief period of using guitar/banjo labels. Note that this is just speculation and needs more supporting evidence. It is important to note that, unlike the use of drum labels in guitars/banjos, it does not appear that use of guitar/banjo labels in drums is linked to the 1973 fires.

The reasons that Gretsch used drum labels and serial numbers in guitars and banjos and guitar/banjo labels and serial numbers in drums are not known. However, it is important when trying to understand the systems of serial number use by Gretsch on guitars, banjos and drums to know that these two situations exist. Otherwise, incorrect date estimates are likely to result when viewing drum numbers as if they were made for guitars/banjos and vice versa.

1 Edward Ball, Gretsch 6120 The History of a Legendary Guitar, Schiffer Books, 2010. (“Ball”) Mr. Ball and the author are on parallel journeys, each doing extensive work cataloging information from thousands of instruments – Ball for guitars and banjos and Gier for drums. They have been sharing information for more than a decade to better understand vintage Gretsch instruments. Mr. Ball inspired and contributed significantly to this article.

2 Adding to the confusion in 1966, a group of 1,000 labels printed in 1957 appear in 1966 model instruments. Until identified and understood, this group of “lost” labels caused many 1966 era guitars to be misidentified. Ball.

3 Richard E. Gier, Dating of Vintage Gretsch Drums Based Upon Serial Numbers – Challenging the Legend, Lore and Lies, fourth edition, Rebeats Publications, Alma, MI, 2023.

4 Ball.

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